All This Wrangling Over Climate Change – What’s Up With That?
Why has climate change generated such a bitter controversy? Why do some insist that man-made global warming is “settled science” and a dangerous reality, while others insist it’s “junk science” and a hoax?
In picking apart the climate change debate, I see several forces at work shaping public opinion and attitudes:
- Geographical and societal influences
- Political ideologies and popular influencers
- The scientific evidence itself
- The weather this week
In a previous article, I examined research on public attitudes around climate change (see “Does the Public Really Believe Humans Are Causing Climate Change?”). Research from Gallup, the Brookings Institution, and the Chicago Council on Public Affairs shows geographical differences in the public’s attitudes about climate change. This suggests culture and economics as influences on beliefs about this issue.
Worldwide, 35 percent blame human activities for global warming, 14 percent blame natural causes, and 13 percent blame both. In developed Asia, 76 percent think global warming is caused by human activities. In Canada and Western Europe, about half blame human activities (54 percent and 49 percent respectively). (Photo: Sad Earth. Credit: John LeGear, CC BY-SA 2.0)
In the U.S., though, only 34 percent say that rising temperatures due to climate change are caused by human activities. Moreover, attitudes in the U.S. have been changing since 2008, with more now expressing a skeptical view about man-made global warming.
Which America Do You Live In?
Recently, the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication published a report called “Global Warming’s Six Americas in May 2011,” which analyzes the variation in beliefs about climate change in the United States.
The “Six Americas” are various segments of the U.S. population, grouped according to their beliefs about the question whether global warming is real and man-made. Yale defines its segments as (shown here with their percentages of the U.S. population):
- Alarmed — 12 %
- Concerned — 27%
- Cautious — 25%
- Disengaged — 10%
- Doubtful — 15%
- Dismissive — 10%
These segments are listed according to their placement on a scale from highest to lowest: The “Alarmed” respondents are those with the highest belief in global warming and who are the most concerned and most motivated around the issue. “Dismissive” respondents have the lowest belief in global warming and are the least concerned and least motivated. (Photo: Melbourne World Environment Day 2011. Credit: Takver, CC BY-SA 2.0)
How much do the people in these segments really know about the issue of global warming? According to the report’s authors,
Of the Six Americas, the Dismissive were the most likely to say they are well-informed about global warming, with 91% saying they were very or fairly well-informed. Among the Alarmed, 85% said they were very or fairly well-informed, followed by two-thirds of the Concerned and the Doubtful.
Most Americans say they have questions about global warming and would like to know more, according to the study’s authors.
Is one side in the global warming controversy somehow better informed or educated than the other? Obviously, there are scientists, think-tank researchers, academics, and policy experts who have in-depth knowledge of climate change and its causes. But when it comes to the general populace, researchers at the Cultural Cognition Project at Yale Law School (“The Tragedy of the Risk-Perception Commons: Culture Conflict, Rationality Conflict, and Climate Change”) recently came to an interesting conclusion:
The conventional explanation for controversy over climate change emphasizes impediments to public understanding: limited popular knowledge of science, the inability of ordinary citizens to assess technical information, and the resulting widespread use of unreliable cognitive heuristics to assess risk. A large survey of U.S. adults … found little support for this account. On the whole, the most scientifically literate and numerate subjects were slightly less likely, not more, to see climate change as a serious threat than the least scientifically literate and numerate ones.
So those who doubt climate change are not necessarily less informed than those who accept it. However, the researchers write that:
More importantly, greater scientific literacy and numeracy were associated with greater cultural polarization: respondents predisposed by their values to dismiss climate change evidence became more dismissive, and those predisposed by their values to credit such evidence more concerned, as science literacy and numeracy increased.
The Yale researchers believe that, in deciding how to respond to risks such as climate change, people are profoundly influenced by the cultural groups they belong to and the values of those groups. Their mere knowledge of issues is secondary.
Before pursuing that, though, it’s worth noting the influence of current weather on people’s beliefs about global warming.
Scorchers and Snowpocalypses
I used to think people were kidding when they would say things like, “Oh look how hot it is — must be global warming,” or “Look how much snow we’re having — and they say the world is getting warmer.” But apparently it’s no joke. The Yale “Six Americas” study says that “Because Americans do not clearly distinguish between weather and climate, they may be inclined to infer whether climate change is occurring from recent weather.”
Among the Cautious and Disengaged, their attitudes seem to swing back and forth from winter to summer. And for many among the Alarmed, Concerned, Doubtful, and Dismissive, the weather tends to confirm their beliefs about global warming either way. The Alarmed see the weather as confirming global warming; the dismissive see the weather as arguing against it. (Photo: Chicago Blizzard of 2011. Credit: seligmanwaite, CC BY 2.0)
How can different people living in the same world, with the same evidence available to them, come to opposite conclusions?
Confirmation Bias and Political Ideology
Consider the phenomenon known as “confirmation bias.” The Skeptic’s Dictionary defines confirmation bias as “a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one’s beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one’s beliefs.”
So recognizing human-caused climate change might fit the world view of one person, but seeing it as a hoax might fit the world view of the next one.
Grappling on the global-warming battlefield are two parties in a high-stakes political conflict: On the extreme ends of the global warming controversy, believers accuse skeptics of pushing “free-market fundamentalism”; skeptics accuse believers of pushing “eco-socialism.”
According to one narrative, market fundamentalists and corporate interests are funding an intentionally-deceptive propaganda campaign against the concept of human-caused global warming to keep business free from regulatory interference. (Photo: Environmental advocate Al Gore. Credit: World Economic Forum, CC BY-SA 2.0)
According to the opposing narrative, communism has reformulated itself as a leftist environmental movement bent on establishing a world government and destroying free-market capitalism.
In my previous article about public-opinion research, I highlighted a study by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, which found considerable difference in U.S. attitudes about climate change between Democrats and Republicans. Forty-eight percent of Democrats think climate change is a critical threat, versus 16 percent of Republicans. When it comes to the U.S.’s participating in a new treaty to mitigate climate change through reduction of greenhouse gases, 85 percent of Democrats favor such a move, as opposed to 50 percent of Republicans.
So political persuasion emerges as an important influence on people’s attitudes about climate change — or at least there’s a correlation.
“There Is No Controversy” — Yeah, Right.
True believers are fond of saying that “There is no dispute” about whatever they think should be the official version of the truth. That would work really well if they were in charge of a large society of, say, sheep. But in a human society, even if you claim to have science on your side, a certain percentage of the populace is going to reserve the right to think for itself.
As much as researchers and pundits on both sides might hate to acknowledge it, human-induced climate change is a controversial question. Some of the differences between factions might be explained by cultural or political influences, confirmation bias, or mistaken ideas about the weather. I suspect all of these factors, as well as others I haven’t yet explored here. (Photo: Global warming skeptic Christopher Monckton. Credit: Don Irvine, CC BY-ND 2.0)
The Alarmed and Dismissive might think they already know everything they need to know about climate change and its causes. But what about you Cautious, Disengaged, or Doubtful? Where can you find clear explanations of the science around climate change — that is, explanations that don’t require a Ph.D. in atmospheric science to understand them? And when you read about climate change, how can you be certain you aren’t being taken in by someone with an ideological agenda — or a couple of screws loose?
The editorial gods do not permit the devotion of further word-count to these questions today, but watch this space in the near future for more food for thinking minds. And in the meantime, please feel free to leave your observations, reflections, commentary, or lunatic ravings in the comment space below.




























Excellent article. Balanced and digs beneath the surface, helps to understand the problem. We need more of this. My own blog focused on climate change and ocean impacts attempts to bridge the gap between science and public understanding on aspects of this issue. fyi http://www.johnenglander.net
John – Interesting work you’re doing. I’m thinking about what you said about bridging the gap between science and public understanding. What do you think about that idea of “confirmation bias”? Maybe it’s over-simplifying the idea, but what it says is that people tend to reject information if it goes against their political or cultural biases. So just providing straightforward understandable information might not be enough to change attitudes.
I am in the Alarmed camp, for the very good reason that I am a scientist (albeit not an atmospheric scientist) and hence I understand how that community works. You can be a scientist and a liar, but if you get your FACTS wrong you will pay for it. Instead you are free to lie about what you believe, what you know, how you feel, and so on, as many of them do for selfish gain. I don’t like them, but I understand them. On the other hand, as a business lawyer explained to me once, you can declare that the moon is made out of green cheese and launch a company to go mine for it, and so long as that is what you believe your investors cannot sue you for fraud. In other words in the legal and business world the facts are irrelevant, but fiduciary responsibility matters. I don’t like that either, but it’s the way the world works in these times. In any case I think Jim Hansen expressed it best when he said that fossil fuel industry (not “corporations per se, many of which are trying mightily to reduce their carbon footprints) is trying to defend itself in the eyes of the public using the same techniques a lawyer would use to defend his client in the eyes of a jury. And the public understands the legal perspective much better than the scientific, for the simple reason that the scientific method cannot practically be applied to the vast majority of “problems” they are interested in. Climate change is just not one of them.
Nice try at being “unbiased” anyway! — TOM
” You can be a scientist and a liar, but if you get your FACTS wrong you will pay for it.”
And who will make you pay? Your peers? Hello – they are not called The Team for no reason. In the world of climate science, you can retroactively adjust past temperatures using any number of reasons, see the development of the GISS temperature record over time.
see http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/giss-cooling-the-past-in-texas/
“FACTS” are subject to further adjustment in climate science.
TOM – Thanks for weighing in. Interesting insight from Hansen: “fossil fuel industry … is trying to defend itself in the eyes of the public using the same techniques a lawyer would use to defend his client in the eyes of a jury.” Are you saying, then, that from the corporate perspective anything goes, even if it means being deceptive? Or have I misunderstood you? Also: “And the public understands the legal perspective much better than the scientific.” Would you say that leads the public to take the wrong side, that is, the side that they understand best?
If you were a genuine experimental scientist, the very fact that people are so certain about the extent and causes of climate change in a field that is essentially observational, i.e. where definitive experiments are not possible, would give some cause for doubt. In fact, it might indeed be cause for alarm – that is, alarm regarding the current state of climatology.
There is also the minor fact that the storyline has been changing during the past few years in view of the cold that most of us have been experiencing, so that people are now contradicting the predictions made in the recent past – without acknowledging the discrepancies. This doesn’t really serve to bolster trust in climate ‘experts’.
Mr. Bredenberg,
What do you know and understand about the science of climate? How do you know what you know?
Mark – What I know about climate science is dwarfed by what I don’t know. Why do you ask? How about you?
Mark
I find one of the best sources for climate knowledge to be http://www.skepticalscience.com/ It is done by a team of real climate experts. When they debunk some assertion or myth, they use plain English and give the references. On the left column is “most used skeptic arguments.” Worth a look. From several years as a writer in the field researching climate information, I have found them to be excellent.
@John Englander
John Cook’s website might be sufficient for an alarmist, but not for a skeptic.
If your opinion differs from the moderators, you get censored.
I am not referring to having comments sent to the ether for being troll-like or full of ad-hominums.
I am talking about straight forward questions, doubting the specific science posted there.
And not just there but RC as well.
A study was recently done that RC alone deletes nearly 50% of all comments recieved.
You can find the testimonies of many, lamenting the censorship of many CAGW websites.
Scientific papers have been denied, because the peer-reviewer refuses to have it published.
Bloggers censor comments of those that question the science.
Journals posture to protect questionable papers on AGW.
There is validity to Al wanting to question the level of integrity regarding global warming.
As much as some of you would like to continue to think that the science is settled, it’s not.
Until scientific journals allow to have opposing science to be printed and CAGW websites allow to have questions raised and not sent to the ether, then no matter how factual climate change may be, it is extremely prejudice to any view other than its own.
What is the Alarmist afraid of?
I agree about Skeptical Science. Excellent for links to the latestpeer-reviewed papers.
One of the best aspects of the blog is that they don’t tolerate fools. If a “skeptic” wants a serious debate they get respect if they put up a cogent argument backed by science. However, the comments are moderated so you don’t have to put up with reading those endlessly parroted standard “the clinate’s changed before” level of denier-myth over and over and over and over and….well – you get the idea.
@Leslie Graham
You wrote:
“I agree about Skeptical Science. Excellent for links to the latestpeer-reviewed papers.”
If by ‘excellent”, you mean attempt to debunk any paper that doesn’t support CAGW, I agree !
“One of the best aspects of the blog is that they don’t tolerate fools. If a “skeptic” wants a serious debate they get respect…”
I have to cut that comment off right there.That statement couldn’t be farther from the truth.
If there are readers here not familiar with the word ‘censorship’, all one has to do is visit either Real Climate, Tamino’s Open(laugh)Mind or Skeptical Science to witness censorship first hand.
Literally thousands of comments monthly get deleted by these websites. Not because the comments are foolish or derogatory or troll-like or ad-hominum in nature. No. But because the moderator doesn’t want an opposing view on their website.
It has been well documented and I’ve experienced it first-hand, the outright censorship of these websites, including Cooks.
The few comments that do get through can be said to do so, only to give the moderator and the pro-agw posters there, someone to ridicule or because the comment in question seems easily dismissed.
So no, you are absolutely wrong Leslie. There is no debate. The moment a moderator feels they can’t debunk a skeptic or defend a CAGW issue, that’s the moment when that particular poster is led straight to the ether.
Has it never occurred to you why every single debate favors the alarmist at these websites.
How about head to a skeptic website.Take your pick, because it won’t matter which you visit.
Anyone can leave a comment, even if it’s off topic or foolish.
It’s not until someone starts name-calling or blows up in a rant, that the moderator steps in. Even then, the moderator posts why that action was taken.
You don’t have to believe me. Just do a little research in to the matter.
Maybe you might respond and say I have no proof. I am ok with that.
But the 100′s or 1000′s that read this, that actually do investigate this story, will know the truth.
“limited popular knowledge of science, the inability of ordinary citizens to assess technical information, and the resulting widespread use of unreliable cognitive heuristics to assess risk.”
These seem to be the same reasons that so many draw false anecdotal links between vaccines and autism in the absence of any scientific evidence of such a link. More people seem to rely on “my cousin’s neighbor’s kid’s” experience, or they put equal weight on the Web site of some guy who lives in a trailer in Area 51 and sports a tin foil chapeau as a peer-reviewed study published in the New England Journal of Medicine. They know how to read Foil Freddie’s semi-literate rants, but they do not have the scientific education to understand the NEJM article.
Refreshing to see journalism is not completely dead. Thank you.
On the other hand though, comments like that by ThisOldMan suggesting the fossil-fuel industry is defending itself for ‘fiduciary matters’, is the type of slight-of-hand that the alarmist is famous for.
In recent news, the ASA defends the AAAS statement to protect the rights and privacy of scientists from ‘personal attacks’.
The skeptical scientist is not given this type of ‘fiduciary’ attention, yet the validity of one alarmists work is in doubt and the journals that print such questionable work, cry foul.
How about we let the investigation determine that and leave the defenders of faith out of it.
Hi Climate for all,
This is referring to your quote above
‘Until scientific journals allow to have opposing science to be printed and CAGW websites allow to have questions raised and not sent to the ether, then no matter how factual climate change may be, it is extremely prejudice to any view other than its own.’
I am a Masters student currently going through the painful publication process and I hope to explain it. The review process is the best thing we have to filtering bad science from good science. Unlike journalism and and political talk, journals are regulated to have the least corrupt information (I say least corrupt because all science relies on assumptions). Having alterate theories – such as non-climate theories – is good and proper science and every journal should welcome such input from those sceintists. However, there are very few with little evidence. That is why you don’t see Chistopher Mockton or Robert Carter being published in climate science journals. It is because their science is bad, not because the journals don’t like their ideas.
Like John West, it is the papers that journals reject, that makes them the best.
Grad – You are right that peer review is an important process to guard against the publication of faulty science. One thing that worries many observers is, what if the journal editors and the members of the review panel are all influenced by the same ideological bias? Or some other kind of bias that can skew their decisions about what gets published and what doesn’t?
I hear you, but to put it simply – The ideology of a true sceintist should be truth. It would be interesting to see what grounds these papers are being knocked back on – my bet is that there is a lack of replication of the data, the methodolgy can not be reproduced or the authors claim generalisations based only on a small area of land/weather.
The good thing about the climate change debate is that it WILL be answered. There will be more and more evidence and what ever the outcome, we will all know for sure in our lifetime. One won’t be able to say that the Artic had never existed.
Also, for anyone that is interested if there is a consensus read
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.abstract
Remember, 2-3% of climate scientists that are sceptical still publish. Which is perfectly normal for any theory.
I got in a discussion the other day with a group of deniers. They insisted all the scientists were lying in order to get grant money. Now I ask you, who has more financial incentive to lie? Oil companies or a bunch of scientist vying for a few tidbits of grant money?
When the argument comes up that all the scientists are misleading us to get more funding, this is how I respond:
Assume that there are a few scientists that are unethical and slant the information to try to get more grants. Is it different than a bad cop or doctor. Do you dismiss an entire profession due to a few unethical individuals?
Second: There are now hundreds of thousands of university students, graduate students, and people starting their careers in climate science all over the world; many in systems where they don’t even have to compete for funding. Can you imagine getting these hundreds of thousands of bright competitive minds, all trying to make a name for themselves, most with the purest of intentions–to be silent co-conspirators to bogus science? If you have, you have not had much contact with the students on a college campus.
And one of the many sites debunking John Cook’s debunking! is-
http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/03/john-cook-skeptical-science.html
John Cook is not a climate scietist and has created straw men to easily knock down. Do your homework John Englander and you’ll find that strong opinions on both sides, alarmist and skeptic, are based on making assumptions that require a whole lot more study and empirical data – the temperature record. With significant warming for 20 years, 1978-1998, and now 13+ plus years of flat-lining temperatures and little recent sea level change, the empirical data- the temperature record- is INCONCLUSIVE- on whether we’re having significant or any warming, as CO2 emissions and concentration in our atmosphere increase. We’ll have a very good idea at some time in the future, but not now.
I like how Victor thinks that climate science only vies for tidbits.
The C.B.O. just released a cost estimate for S699, a bill to give scientists 68 million to ‘demonstrate’ how-to sequester carbon.
This is but a drop in the bucket spending by the federal gov’t in regards to the science of AGW.
So, in response to what Al eludes to in regards to all this wrangling over climate change…..
It’s all about the money.
To suggest that billions of dollars in controlling Co2 is but tidbits, is egregiously misleading.
I’m not sure I would say it’s *all* about the money. But in examining the motives of the various players in this issue, I think financial incentives are one factor to look at, on both sides of the controversy. And financial incentives need not be very large to affect people’s behavior.
Be careful what you comment on, it’s a good idea to know something about it first. If you had taken the time to check the facts you’d have discovered that billions have been spent to “prove” AGW, while the true scientists have had to settle for the crumbs. In other words the facts are exactly the opposite from what you believe. But, as the article says, there is a strong tendency to only believe those sources that support one’s current belief system. Oh yes, it has been the world’s Western governments that have supplied research funds to the AGW scientists. You might ask yourself why they would so determined to prove that human causes are the problem. Could it be that they would discover another source of “revenue,” very much needed by thaws financially strapped governments … Read Cap and Trade.
Often the same individuals who deny that humans are causing climate change are very concerned about damage to the environment that may be caused by the release of mercury when CFL bulbs are broken.
Al,
You mentioned “the scientific evidence itself” in the beginning of the article, but you did not write a section on it. Wow!
Let me summarize it for you. Over 90% of scientists working in fields related to climate change (earth sciences, oceanography, paleoclimatology, etc) agree that global warming is largely human driven and has reached levels that we should be either ‘alrmed’ or very “concerned” about. The IPCC’s warning and assessment of climate change implications for humanity have become more dire each time, as the amount of reliable data has increased.
BTW, do you realize how hard it is to get 90% of a scientific community to agree on anything at all? peer-related science is all about locating holes in other scientists work and exposing them, and for that kind of consensus to arise, there has to be a LOT of testing, re-testing, and analysis of results from many different researchers, who do not necessarily agree with each other, even if they know about each other.
That’s what the science shows. You didn’t write that. Why didn’t you do that?
This is part of the problem. It’s not only you of course. Most journalists gloss over the science, because they don’t understand it, or they make a judgment call that the public doesn’t want to read about the science. Everybody wants to know what “public opinion” is. That’s fine, but “public opinion” is not a reliable indicator of the factual truth of a situation.
“Public opinion” would have executed Casey Anthony, but the actual jury found, rightfully, and according to the law, that not enough evidence existed to convict her.
I want to reference you to the great work of Naomi Oreskes, whose book Merchants of Doubt details who the anti-climate change lobby is, how they formed, and what they have actually done http://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/ She accurately traces the roots of the lobby to the exact same scientists (none of whom actually made a career in climate-related science, it turns out) that gave us the ‘smoking does not cause cancer’ lobbying campaign of the 1990s. They learned the technology of seeding doubt in public opinion, then found a new customer in the fossil-fuels industry.
This is not an opinion, she has the docs, dates, times, and names of the involved accurately documented. All part of the public record. And yes, she gets regular death threats because she dares to do this work.
I guess today’s so-called journalists don’t research stuff, they just sniff the wind for “public opinion”?
The anti-climate change lobby is, if you want facts, the largest most organized propaganda campaign history has ever seen (surpassing in monetary layout even the Nazi propaganda machine of the late 1930′s) by the largest most well-financed political lobbying forces the world has ever seen (Big Corporate, Big Oil and Big Coal).
And of course, they have FOX News, one of the world’s largest media networks, devoted to only promoting the denialist viewpoint.
Nice try, but sorry you still get a fail. Unfortunately, this article adds more to the confusion.
You seem like an honest guy. Why can’t you get this stuff right?
@Yogi-one
You say,”I guess today’s so-called journalists don’t research stuff, they just sniff the wind for “public opinion”?”
You are absolutely correct.
I have recently investigated the writings of 2 ‘climate’ journalists, and found them lacking any investigative abilities in the name of ‘climate change’.
Dan Joling recently reported that the town of Kavalina, Ak. was being forced to relocate due to global warming. He had written that permafrost was melting cellars and water resources were becoming toxic because of the melting.
What he didn’t report was the city had relocated once before, because of sea wave erosion and had rebuilt on the nearby shore. He also failed to reveal that the city had attempted to sue 25 companies, blaming them for climate change and polluting the soil.
The suit got thrown out.
Dana Cappiello also reported that a judge upheld a ruling that climate change was responsible for putting the Polar Bear on the ‘threatened’ list.
When in fact, the Fish and Wildlife Service had written that climate change was beyond its scope and that the listing was based entirely on historical evidence. Judge Sullivan, who dismissed the case, also was quoted from his 116 page opinion paper, that his ruling was solely based on if the service had met its standards to list the Polar Bear as ‘threatened’. That court proceeding was actually to place the Polar Bear on the ‘Endangered’list, and not if it should have been removed from the ‘Threatened’ list.
Until someone can show me why such tainted journalism is allowed to be printed, then genuine articles like this that draw questions to the science, should be welcomed.
You seem to only conflagrate the science with even more disingenuous comments.
I did not mention those articles, nor was I aware of them.
Accurate court reporting, and accurate reporting of the facts of any particular case, are of course important matters of journalistic integrity.
I am talking about stuff like press that claimed to show Climategate disporved global warming, when of course, it did not. Also, all the charged scientists were cleared of any wrongdoing, but it’s much harder to find those articles than the headlines about how Climategate proved AGW is wrong.
And there was another one last week claiming that the IPCC had it all wrong. Meh.
There’s plenty of info now easily available by climate scientists. One good source is UC TV (University of California)They have the latest lectures done by scientists doing research from Woods Hole, Scripps and other locations that climate scientists are based out of. NASA, NOAA, and lately many oceanographers have begun posting the results of their work online as well.
The articles you mention go into the slippery area of trying to prove that specific events were solely caused by “climate change”. Climate science is all about overall climate trends. The better approach is to compare current climate trends with predictions from many different sources running climate models. You get overall agreement between current climate tends and predictions.
You don’t get one-to-one causal relationships between say, a particular tornado and a particular contributing factor to global warming. But I think that’s asking the wrong question.
Better to analyze the climate system as a whole, and see if predictions of climate modelling are holding up or not.
Yogi-one — Yes, I would hate to gloss over the science. That will have to be the subject of a future article, probably more than one.
My purpose in these first two articles is to try to frame the climate-change discussion and identify some of the dynamics at play.
Yes, the Oreskes and Conway book, “Merchants of Doubt” is excellent and very important. I’ve read it, and it’s sitting on my desk right now. Highly recommended.
Thank you, and I want to say sorry for the heightened emotionality of my post. Thanks for not taking it personally. I happen to be a bit passionate about the subject.
Yogi-one:
August 2, 2011 at 1:59 pm
“I did not mention those articles, nor was I aware of them.”
Of course you didn’t.
Instead what you did write was:
“BTW, do you realize how hard it is to get 90% of a scientific community to agree on anything at all?”
When you say 90% of the scientific community, is that a figure only directed at all science or just the climate science?
Sorry, that’t just a rhetorical question. I don’t expect you to be able to answer that.
Beyond that, what you suggest is interesting. When the rest of the country seems polarized over every issue from stem cell research to what type of laundry detergent to use, makes one doubt those percentages. It could very well be that in all likelihood, a skeptic has a greater chance of getting a job as a dishwasher than a climate scientist.
You also said that,”Most journalists gloss over the science…”
Up until Climagegate, practically every journalist from the WSJ to Podunk USA wrote only about global warming. I mean climate change. No wait, I’m sorry, I mean climate disruption.
Though there didn’t seem to be a problem with journalists then as opposed to now, I assume your ‘public opinion’ journalist is more directed at the skeptical journalist. Even this journalist. Though he attempted to straddle the ideology between the alarmist and the denier.
I mean it’s pretty self evident.
In addition, you attack the skeptic community with the “great work of Naomi Oreskes, whose book Merchants of Doubt details who the anti-climate change lobby is.”
That assumption suggests that if it wasn’t for some anti-climate lobby, that men and women, like myself that have no connection to that lobby, are somehow brainwashed by that lobby. God forbid I anyone for being able to think for themselves.
Which of course leads me to wonder how little importance you give to the environmental lobbyist. Are you somehow suggesting that ‘green movement’ lobbyist is far less superior in manipulation than the fossil-fuel lobbyist?
Sorry, I’m being rhetorical again. I don’t expect you to be able to answer that.
You also direct an accusation Al by saying,”Nice try, but sorry you still get a fail. Unfortunately, this article adds more to the confusion.
You seem like an honest guy. Why can’t you get this stuff right?”
When the truth be known, as I had previously stated in my previous comment, that it seems you are the one confusing the issue.
Its also completely laughable that you could somehow suggest that MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN, just to name a few Pro-AGW news channels, as having far less power over ‘public opinion’ than Fox.
The more I decipher your comment, the more it becomes apparent just how much dis-information you have provided.
If you could have just provided more facts than ‘passion’, maybe you wouldn’t have ‘failed’ to carry a clear message.
So my previous comment stands.
You could not be more disingenuous if you tried.
Doug Allen mentions that John Cook is not a climate scientist, apparently to discredit him. All I would point out is that Cook is one of the leading sea level experts in the world. As most will appreciate, long terms changes in planetary temperature effect ice sheets. Ice sheets and glaciers directly change sea level. That is why sea level is the ultimate indicator of long term temperature changes. Looking at any period of a few years is irrelevant, and potentially confusing. Sea level has risen by about 8 inches over the last century. The RATE of rise has essentially doubled to 3.2 mm per year over the last few decades. The long term relationship of average global temperature to sea level appears to be about 65 feet (20 m) of sea level change for each degree Celsius. The oceans have warmed by about 0.8 degrees C over the last century. Sea level has repeatedly moved up and down by natural cycles of about 120 m (almost 400 feet) with each ice age. The last low point was 20,000 years ago. Sea level tells us a lot about climate. The fact that we build our civilization right up to the shoreline before we understood the movement of sea level presents a real problem for all coastal cities.
John, It might surprise you to know that the rate of sea level rise has actually declined in Australia over the past decade. I think you will find other studies from other parts of the world that also show this. I have read a lot about John Cook and what he has to say and, as a scientist, I do not put much faith in anything he has to offer. He comes accross a bit too much like a used car salesman.
http://joannenova.com.au/2011/07/australian-sea-levels-are-not-accelerating/#more-16209
CameronH
I am aware of the recent press in Australia purporting that sea level rise is slowing based on the article by Phil Watson showing that the RATE OF RISE is slowing. Assume that is what you refer. I wrote a blog post about that last week. http://www.johnenglander.net/node/63
Briefly there are two immediate things one would want to consider before drawing any conclusion from that:
1. His data all came from Australian based tide gauges. While tide gauges do go back a century or so, the satellite data from the last few decades is more precise. The two data sets are different but generally overlap. One should certainly look at the satellite data before jumping to any conclusion about a few years. On an annual basis sea level rise is in the 2-3 mm per year. Fractions matter greatly when extrapolating out for a century.
2. Shoreline based observations do not take into account the uplift or subsidence of the land. That needs to be adjusted from the observation, as I explained in the blog. There are places in Alaska where sea level appears to be going down, only because the land is rising (uplifting) faster than the sea is rising. The movement of the plates of the Earth’s crust from Japan to New Zealand would make me want to know if there are any vertical changes in Australia before I paid any attention to the tide gauge data. It would be easy to get a fraction of a mm, that could considerably affect the RATE of sea level increase, or I should say the APPARENT rate of sea level increase, as observed from a location on the Australian coast. Another reason that the satellite data is a key source; one that the recent stories did not consider.
Yes, all the consensus scientists agree, and each with their own special and unique opinion. That was a lab coat consultant’s w&t-dream, studying the effects of something that hasn’t happened yet.
The Neocons had their Iraq War of false weapons of mass destruction. And now, science has its Big Lie that is dragging all of progressivism down with it. We need to back off of the CO2 exaggeration turned criminal lie before it divides progressivism into “orthodox” climate changers and real liberalism that doesn’t use fear as the only motivator. This tragic exaggeration was a vicious circle fed by a level of political correctness not seen since N a z i Germany. A note to you still believing; is it wise to hand over the management of the temperature of the planet to carbon trading markets, giant energy corporations and politicians? And where believer, just where do you see these thousands of scientists that are warning you and I of a “comet hit” of an emergency of climate crisis? This wasn’t about Change, it was about Control of Nature.
Climate Change like all fear movements was ultimately unsustainable and anyone thinking voters now will suddenly vote YES to taxing the air to make the weather colder and lower the sea levels, is the new denier. Face it. Obama didn’t even mention the “crisis” in his state of the union address on the 25t anniversary of climate change. Funny how now only the media thinks it’ still a real danger so let’s leave the unconscionable and lazy copy and paste news editors holding the bag needless panic shall we?
System Change, not Climate Change
Remove the CO2 with Positive Stewardship Anew.
Good article Al — of course the global warming supporters encourage the confusion of “weather” and “climate” when it suits their purposes, and criticize such confusion when it doesn’t, I’ve noticed.
two words “OCEAN ACIDIFICATION”
that proves carbon emissions is not right for the earth
That would be carbon dioxide not carbon. Its the new tactic in Australia to call it carbon so the sheeple dont think it is the air they breathe but the black soot that comes from the chimney. Carbon in the air would be bad. CO2 is a natural necessary gas.
What with all the catechisms, even apologetics, framing the global climate change public discussions, this topic seems to have more in common with religious strife than with science education. Perhaps this is as it should since our collective behaviors in response to this topic determines more consequences for our descendants than, say, whether we determine mass of the Higgs Boson. Personally speaking, since the first Earth Day in 1970 I have made more than modest efforts to minimize my own carbon footprint, but we shouldn’t delude ourselves in thinking there are simple causes and simple solutions. True, the most immediate driver of climate change is fossil fuel burning commencing with the industrial revolution, and with population growth. Before that it was volcanic aerosols causing global cooling. Before that it was the advent of deforestation and herding, with an explosion in termite populations, and surging levels of methane 6000 years ago causing global warming. Before that it was celestial climate drivers causing periodic ice ages. Before that it was the closing of the isthmus in Panama 3 million years ago that greatly restricted heat transport in the oceans and caused the wild climate gyrations in the first place. We should credit our existence to the closing of the Panama isthmus. Since that time our genus Homo arose due to its propensity for trying to make its living in the marginal areas. Living on the margins through many tumultuous climate swings causes the populations of Homo to soar and crash scores and scores of times favoring survival of the most adaptable. Which one of the ‘Six Americans’ I am depends on how I qualify the questions determing that.
My point is that global warming is too complex, too contingent, a phenomenon to persuade us decisively. There are far better arguments for phasing out fossil fuels such as peak oil, balance of trade, and infrastructure renewal.
It is specious to state that “As much as researchers and pundits on both sides might hate to acknowledge it, human-induced climate change is a controversial question.” What is controversial? That some denial ideologues disagree? The science itself is not controversial, only the responses to it.
Controversy is a social science issue, not a physical science issue. My research is dedicated to analyzing why there is social controversy, when the science is sound. That is the issue that most needs discussion.
William – Interesting observation about social controversy. I agree that is very much worth examining. What research are you doing in this area? Have you published something we could read? What do you think are the important elements of controversy as a social science issue?
Send me your e-mail address and I can attach a copy.
From the comments to date, it appears that the circular arguments, contested “facts” and inability to find consensus lead to continued “discussions” with never a possibility of action. In fact, to take any action it would seem is currently foolhardy. How much substantive, peer reviewed evidence must be in place before action is taken. (Science, of course, will never be able to “conclusively prove” anything.) Is our only course to wait until we have hindsight to see who is able to see the big picture? What ever happened to the Precautionary Principle?
Thank you for introducing me to the Precautionary Principle. Based on my very brief introduction, currently the principle seems to be more applicable to initiatives rather than mitigations. Indeed the principle has been used more successfully by those defending the fossil fuel status quo in their insistence that changing the energy regime would mean that our energy demands would not be met leading to a global depression. This is exacerbated when attempts at mitigation quickly provoke coopting by socialists for their social justice agendas. Socialism could never mitigate global warming because it cannot tolerate the independent creative solutions necessary to achieve it. With the new independent startup initiatives for commercializing fusion power we’ve seen in the last decade, we have our best hope for mitigation of global warming, beginning in the next decade.
The Climate Blame Mistake was a crime against Humanity and you are not the only one contacting prosecutors to have the leading news editors and scientists arrested and charged for 25 years of needless CO2 panic.
U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530-0001
By Phone: Department of Justice Main Switchboard – 202-514-2000
Office of the Attorney General Public Comment Line – 202-353-1555
Meanwhile, the UN and the entire SCIENCE world had allowed carbon trading to trump 3rd world fresh water relief, starvation rescue and 3rd world education for just over 25 years of climate control instead of the obviously needed population control.
From “ClimateForAll:” above: “…comments like that by ThisOldMan suggesting the fossil-fuel industry is defending itself for ‘fiduciary matters’, is the type of slight-of-hand that the alarmist is famous for…”
Very true, and I ignored such accusations for the longest time while still trying to ask politicians and policymakers why we should proceed with GHG regulations in the face of science assessments from skeptic scientists. Then one day I stopped to look where those ‘fossil fuel corruption accusations’ actually originated after a Society of Environmental Journalists board member couldn’t trouble himself to tell me.
It’s amazing what happens when anyone looks into the accusation…. it has every appearance of being unsupportable, plus Al Gore himself has contradicted his own narrative about corrupt skeptics twice now, please see my article here: “Pt II: Is Gore’s Accusation of Skeptic Climate Scientists Still a Hoax?” http://www.redstate.com/russellc/2011/06/22/pt-ii-is-gores-accusation-of-skeptic-climate-scientists-still-a-hoax/
Russell C.,
Don’t you have any legitimate science based arguments from a science source rather than an opinion from a right wing propaganda site? Like the other political conservatives posting here you are, at best, uneducated on the topic and proud of it. Find out who Svante Arrhenius is for starters.
Mark,
That’s the problem. Scientists are just like any human being. They want to be liked and accepted. They, along with the rest of the human race, can be swayed by popular opinion even though at their core they may know that there maybe something wrong with the climate science. In fact, it is difficult to be accepted let alone receive grants for work to disprove global warming. Once this became a political issue driven by special interest groups all logical discourse went out the window. Let me give you an example of the level of vitriol from people who support global warming:
“political conservatives posting here you are, at best, uneducated on the topic and proud of it.” – Mark Schaffer
So anybody who disagrees is uneducated and politically conservative sites that post opposing views are wrong. Mark, get in the debate and out of the name calling and mean spirited comments.
RAS,
I meant what I wrote and stand by it. You cannot be educated on climate research and be a denier. Please show specific instances that prove people have been denied grants or time and that have evidence backed arguments disproving AGW.
By the way, I’ve written another article on the climate-change controversy as a follow-up. Discusses some scientific aspects of the debate, but also the motivations of some of the players. For example, I examined the issue of the hacked CRU emails, aka, “Climategate,” which is still not well understood by most people. Anyway, let me know your thoughts. The new article is at http://news.thomasnet.com/green_clean/2011/08/29/the-climate-change-controversy-whats-it-really-about/ or http://tinyurl.com/3mjb7t8 .
I’ve written another follow-up to this article, discussing the new Berkeley Earth data and the question whether global warming has stalled — see http://news.thomasnet.com/green_clean/2011/11/07/so-have-they-figured-out-that-global-warming-is-real/ .
Mark Schaffer,
A report from Senator Hatch is one of the proof points. The report shows that scientist that support man-made global warming or for that matter, the all incorporating global climate change enjoy a monumental funding advantage over skeptical scientists. Senate report details how skeptical scientists are gaining recognition despite what many say is a bias against them in parts of the scientific community and are facing significant funding disadvantages.
Do you want more or are my sources biased?