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July 10, 2007
American Workers Not Wanted
H-1B visas have lately come under fire due to abuse stemming from loopholes in the program's current form. Then there's the commotion over whether firms are deliberately not posting jobs where U.S. workers can find them. Global competition for talent is intense, yet the debate over the way to acquire talent is just as heated.
When the United States Senate's sweeping immigration reform bill crashed and burned two weeks ago, it also meant the temporary end for a proposed amendment that would have almost doubled the number of green cards available for engineers and scientists born outside the U.S. and H-1B visas, which allow an immigrant with a bachelor's degree or higher to work in the U.S. for up to six years. The number of H-1B workers allowed into the country currently is capped at 65,000 for undergraduates and 20,000 for graduate students.
This was the second time in about a month that the bill has failed to get enough votes to move forward.
Some people are mourning what they consider a setback; others are celebrating, for the moment, at least.
Global competition for available talent is intense, of course. Yet debate over the way top talent is acquired is just as intense, if not more.
Talent for Competitiveness
On the one hand, tech companies say the temporary setback means the industry will continue to be hamstrung by a shortage of highly skilled tech workers.
How important is immigration and the H-1B program to the business community? Pretty damn important.
In March, Bill Gates made his way to Capitol Hill to tell key leaders of both parties that immigration is a top business issue in Washington. "If we hope to maintain our economic and intellectual leadership in the U.S., we must renew this commitment," Gates said in an earlier letter to lawmakers. "Unless there is reform, American competitiveness will suffer as other countries benefit from the international talent that U.S. employers cannot hire or retain."
Laszlo Bock, vice president for people operations at Google, has also made the case before Congress to open the doors to more high-skilled foreign workers and make it easier for them to become citizens. "The fact is that we're in a fierce worldwide competition for top talent unlike ever before," BusinessWeek quoted the Google executive as having said last month. Bock's comments came on a day when business leaders testified on immigration reform.
According to Bock, 8 percent of the company's employees in the U.S. are on H-1B visas.
Companies say they use H-1B visas to recruit math, computer science and engineering employees. They also point out that the majority of science and technical graduates from U.S. colleges are foreign nationals.
Yet opponents of the current visa program say some companies are abusing the system to hire cheap labor. Moreover, they say there are plenty of American workers who can fill these highly skilled high-tech positions.
Abuse, Exploitation and Fraud
The H-1B visa program has come under fire recently because of the nature of its users, for one. While the program was originally set up to help U.S. companies hire workers with rare skills, outsourcing companies (particularly from India) have become the most active participants in the program. Last year, 10 of the top 20 recipients of the visas were Indian tech outsourcers, with Infosys and Wipro taking the top two spots, according to BusinessWeek.
While Microsoft often uses the temporary work visas to hire high-level foreign programmers and engineers as they graduate from American universities, and then helps them gain American citizenship so they can stay in the States, Wipro brings from its Indian operations many employees to work at client facilities and then rotates them back to India so they are more effective at providing tech support and other services to clients. Indian outsourcing firms say this data is being misinterpreted, however.
Abuse stemming from loopholes and (lack of) oversight regarding the H-1B program — at least in its current form — are causing a commotion.
"There are three big flaws" in the H-1B program, according to Ron Hira, Ph.D., PE, coauthor of "Outsourcing America: What's Behind Our National Crisis and How We Can Reclaim American Jobs" and assistant professor of public policy at Rochester Institute of Technology, in a recent interview with IT Business Edge:
There are no labor market caps right now, prevailing wage legislation has so many loopholes that employers can and do pay below the prevailing market wage, and there is essentially no oversight of the program. So even though you have all of these laws on the books, no one is looking at the program and doing audits, that kind of thing.
Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science at the University of California-Davis, last week told CIO Insight that the inevitable increase in the number of H-1B visas and green cards will give high-tech companies the opportunity to exploit the system further.
In a recent online video copied and posted to YouTube by an organization that's been tough on H-1B visas and offshore outsourcing, then spread virally, an attorney from law firm Cohen & Grigsby is shown advising attendees of an immigration-law conference on how to meet the minimum requirements of advertising a job to U.S candidates so that a foreign worker can more easily be hired. The firm's conference dealt with the U.S. government's labor certification requirement for foreign workers, the first step in helping them obtain green cards. The law requires that an employer prove there are no qualified U.S. citizens for a permanent job being offered before hiring a non-citizen.
The existence of the recorded seminar suggests that a number of IT firms deliberately post available job positions in places where qualified, interested American workers won't find them so these firms can then have an excuse for hiring a foreign worker over a domestic one. In the video, the Programmers Guild accuses the firm of using fake job ads to fulfill the Program Electronic Review Management, or PERM, process.
"These ads constitute fraud on American job seekers," says the organization in its text leading into the video, which follows:
"There's no shortage of American workers for these jobs," CIO Insight quoted Matloff as having said. "I don't like being lied to and the tech industry is lying to us. They simply want access to cheap labor."
Supply and Demand
Then there's the simple fact of supply and demand: demand for H-1B visas dramatically exceeds supply. In April, the U.S. Immigration and Citizenship Service stopped taking applications for fiscal 2008's allotment a mere one day after filing began, when it was flooded with a reported 120,000-150,000 requests for the 65,000 slots available for H-1B visas; hence the outcries for raising the cap. Reasons given for this vary, of course, from "America's need for additional skilled employees" to "businesses wanting cheaper labor from other countries."
For now, any changes to either the number of H-1B visas available or the qualifications required of potential visa recipients will have to be revisited in future legislation or spending bills that are currently making their way through the Senate. Political reform is far from dead, and the debate is far from over.
Resources
Gates to Senate: More Visas
by Peter Elstrom
BusinessWeek, March 8, 2007
Immigration Reform: Why Business Could Get Burned
by Richard S. Dunham
BusinessWeek, April 10, 2006
Immigration: Google Makes Its Case
by Peter Elstrom
BusinessWeek, June 7, 2007
Hira: Visa Programs 'Need to Be Fixed'
interview with Ron Hira
IT Business Edge, May 24, 2007
H-1B Bump: Not Dead Yet
by Larry Barrett
CIO Insight, July 2, 2007
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14 CommentsThe paradox industry has yet to explain is if H-1B workers represent the world's "top talent", how come they get paid so little?
Even at Microsoft, the H-1B wages are just average -- making Microsoft a high paying H-1B employer.
July 10, 2007 10:51 AMNo shortage of Computer Professionals - 315,587 in Reserve.
Besides loopholes and fraud, the computer-related occupations is over-subscribed.
Employment opportunities for 315,587 American, newly degreed, B.S. C.S. and displaced Comp. Sci. workers (2001 - 2006) = -2,368
Whitepaper here: http://tinyurl.com/2g4dj4
July 10, 2007 12:32 PMSo, opportunies are down 2,368 from 2001, while, let's see... CS degrees earned by US citizens (in 1996) 28,717 + (1997) 29,423 + (1998) 31,707 + (1999) 34,119 + (2000) 41,420 + (2001) 47,297 + (2002) 55,136 + (2003) 63,335 + (2004) 66,130 = over 397,284 US citizens -- 231,898 from 2001 to 2004 -- have tried to enter the field (give or take a few tens of thousands who had different majors, but still learned to program).
And how come employers of H-1B have managed to get 4 out of 5 of them classified as being in the bottom quartile in terms of skills, ability, and pay? (Then again, the few resumes of H-1B holders that have come to light aren't very impressive.)
And why is it that some of the same "shortage" whining firms fail to show up at universities to recruit? They're not taking out ads in newspapers across the country. They're not even advertising in many of the web-based job sites. The ads that do appear tend to be for body shopping, not for real, full-time permanent employment. And the ads lack offers of relocation assistance or new-hire training. And, more important, many of the ads that do appear lack the name of a human contact, voice telephone number and e-mail address, but want to shunt you through a form which won't allow a bright, well-educated, experienced US worker to shine.
Hmm, I should give a nod to Drs. Matloff & Nelson by mentioning that they've pointed out that the visa system is also abused to facilitate age discrimination against Americans as young as 35.
Everywhere you look there is evidence that they are actively avoiding hiring US citizens, and no evidence has been presented to support their claims of "talent shortage".
Gates is a Globalist-booster, that, if successful, will obtain cheaper labor until prisoners/workers are willing to work for nothing,--simply to survive. Gates doesn't NEED more billions, but he has, so far (but for the immigration bill's recent defeat), been able to BUY both sides of the Aisle in Congress.
The Globalists are Euro-centric in as many ways as possible, so if ALL production decisions were "up to them" (which it WILL be, if USA Industry doesn't demand Congressional changes BEFORE the NAU is set-up), manufactures would ONLY exist, for Earth's 90% FEWER inhabitants, under the strict control of the "Gnomes of Brussels(EU)" to the G-- D--ns of anybody else. 231 years or so ago, the USA REBELED against such Tyranny. Now it is back, for the same result.
All free-trade agreements are a FRAUD/SHAM to enable "EURO-control" of the Earth. The Red Chinese have ANOTHER idea. Hopefully, we'll have yet ANOTHER. The "free-traders" of today, were the "TRUSTS" of yesteryear. The "Trusts" grew with European banking funding. The USA taxpayer/US govt. is currently funding some of "free-traders (Traitors) and the Fractional bankers. Beware!
July 10, 2007 10:26 PMI have been reading and hearing the stories about outsourcing and downsizing. Here is my story. I want to keep myself anonymous, as my story did not go out of our four walls.
I migrated to US about 22 years ago from India. In India I tried for 6 years to find a job after finishing my Masters degree. Because of rampant corruption, nepotism, political influences (which I was lacking, and aaginst my concious) I could not find a job. Then God listened to my prayers and I got an opportunity to come to this Land of Opportunity. After I came here, I was fascinated by computers and technology, which I had never even seen a key board in India, and pursued my career. I worked $3 an hour to finance my ambitions.
I finished my BS, and MS Computer Science and positioned in a good job. I was even pursuing my Ph.D in Computer science. But all of a sudden these Indian labor started flooding here. They do not have a formal degree in computers, all they have is a one month programming training in some garage. Some of them not even have college degree and started making more money ( $80 - $100 an hour). I was frustrated with the situation and questioned myself that why I am wasting time in doing Ph.D, and making much lower salary than those high school graduates, and I dropped out.
In the mean time Indian colleges realized the computer boom and introduced a new program called 'Master in Computer Applications (MCA)' which is a one year diploma after high school. Indians started taking this course, and convinced US corporations that they have Masters degree in computer science. US corporations thought they are getting an MCA (Masters) for cheaper rate than what they are paying to BS computer science programmer, and started replacing them. At workplace where I used to work 9 out of 12 team members are H1-B Indians. They literally shine my manager's shoes.
Because the company has to sponsor their green cards, They lie about qualifications and experience. One guy said he has been in Computer field since 1983 in India. In India there were no PCs until 1987. The term 'computer program' was never heard there until 1988.
Another "software engineer's" resume says he has been working as a software engineer since 1995 in Bank One. But his passport shows his date of entry to US as 1998. I have scores of such examples about these so called H1-B software engineers and their qualifications. "An Honest H1-B Indian" is a good oxymoron in English language.
My wife and I have two masters degrees each in computer science, and engineering. Our combined salary was $230K till October 2003. One fine morning, the bomb (downsize) exploded -- we both got laid off on the same day (we were working for different corporations).
Today, our income is 'ZERO'. We could not even find minimum wage jobs. We are victims of outsourcing. No third soul knows about situation. Because it spreads fast to back home and to old age parents.
I was interviewed couple of times by TCS and Wipro, and they almost offered me the job. But the minute I told them that I am US Citizen, they said their project was on hold. So far I have not heard even single H1-B guy who is unemployed. Downsizing is effecting only US citizens.
In my case, I was replaced by a H1-B. These Indian outsourcing companies are bribing the IT managers and successfully get their job done. The prime element that drove me out of India (corruption), again drove me out of my job.
I am ashamed of myself to call myself an Indian.
July 11, 2007 12:10 AMThere are many good points in this note. Some of these foreigners do get a degree, particularly from India - states of Andhra Pradesh, Bihar and Utter Pradesh - can get degrees, including Medical Degrees by paying a lump sum and attending some easy-to-pass courses. They migrate either to NA or to Europe by hook or crook, including bribery to some authorities for fake certificates. When they arrive, the so-called "head-hunting scums" put them up in some unknown places, teach them something with a "klinker computer" and send them to big corporations. There are several middle agents included in these type of activities.
The working makes between 10 and 18 dollars an hour and the middle men charge up to $150.00 per hour. I heard that some of the native employees of foreign consular offices who process the so-called "illegal visas" also get a cut from these wages. Many of the new arrivals work in gas stations and restaurants and sleep in community homes with a cell phone.
That is all for now.Thanks for the opportunity to express some facts about illegal visas to North America.
July 12, 2007 2:23 PMMaybe a qualified foreign worker will accept to be underpayed at the beginning. But as soon as he is legally enabled to work for ANY employer (free market, support of the american dream) he will ask for and get what he is worth.
The world is one. Not even the U.S. can hide from this fact or avoid its consecuences in the mid term.
Open the doors to qualified immigration and you will see that top performers, american and foreigners, earn the most.
Those who are less qualified will make less.
Sorry for them, but there is no long term benefit for the U.S. in paying higher salaries to those who produce less, just because there is an artificial shortage of workers.
Just apply the american common sense. The U.S. is a great country because of freedom to work & trade and respect to business profit.
No one should profit from artificial market constraints.
The answer for the less qualified american worker is not immigration restrictions.
The answer is hard work ethics and better qualifications.
Permanent Residence status was seriously debated in Singapore, which is a relatively small country and highly dependent on external talent and locals were initially against outsiders, were finally convinced by the Government that without talented outsiders they will not remain what they are today.
I think this is more relevant for USA as well. The moment USA disconnects from the world, it will become like the Latin American world if not worst.
Perhaps the USA Government has cared to the local too much under Apollo system protection mechanism that they simply watch WWF fighting and may demand money for watching it and calling it work. I don't believe that USA Government will stop any American from getting a job.
An average Indian is more willing to work and want to contribute his like to the job irrespective of his education level, by skill, that locals fails to meet. It is not engineers but carpenters were getting $150,000 in San Francisco when I did a survey. Billion people in India are talented and hard working people and to say that they are not fit will ruin the economy of USA as these people will move else where to tilt the balance. No one can ignore them, and ignoring them is like falling into trap of your own.
In India, poor live highly dignified life and they are not ashamed to be poor else what do you think of Gandhi and his financial assets. Perhaps he might have never known a bank account and he did not have even a second cloth to put on his body. Do you think he would have spoiled your country had you invited him to USA? We are lucky that Mother Theresa came to India.
Indians are excellent, highly caring people for others and make others happy wherever they go and they never forget their mother land for sure.
July 17, 2007 10:46 PMSeveral good points above. We should never bar all immigration of intellectually gifted immigrants. There is always a superlative talent that soars far above the usual excellent college graduate. Those talents have much to offer whatever country they come to.
But the larger picture is that our American education system is a chronic failure at turning out the very large numbers of science, technological, engineering, and mathematical workers that a nation of our size and wealth should create. It is not for lack of money. We spend more than a trillion dollars a year for all forms of education combined; far more than any other nation on the planet.
Observers sometimes miss a point or two. We need to graduate more technical talent for numerous reasons. Some graduates choose to enter other fields. Some prove to be inept. In a few cases, it is more productive to train new state-of-the-art talent than to retrain aging in-place talent. We need many more technically astute leaders. Such leaders have been a plus factor in China's amazing economic growth. Our leaders tend to come from political science and law fields, to our national detriment. We need a better leadership balance of skills.
Labor cost is also an issue. Without a plentiful supply of domestic high tech workers, the high resulting labor rates will ensure that our goods and services become increasingly uncompetitive on the global marketplace. Put simply, we need to lower the cost to American employers of hiring American technical talent. Fulfilling that need will not please the technical work force, but we need to become more cost competitive if we wish to retain our shrinking technological lead in the world. And with shrinking energy resources, the need for increased trade competitiveness is direly urgent.
July 18, 2007 1:30 PMIn response to Hugo H. Troche Rasmussen:
I thought I had read some time ago (in a reputable pub like WSJ or NYT) that sponsoring companies were using the H1-B as a weapon and preventing underpaid workers from seeking other employers, even while the sponsor is contracting jobs from those companies.
If this is true, then free-market economics (where talent and hard work prevail) are subverted. I can understand how a foreign worker would continue working in sweatshop conditions out of H1-B fear (of return in shame or to poverty or to hostile conditions).
I also read that each H1-B process is taking several months and thus it cannot be that "critical" talent needs are actually being met by H1-B (to wit, if a human patient was "critical" then he would have died by then, such is also the case with modern business).
In reading these comments, an idea came to me that there should be a national registry of citizen job seekers, such as universtiy grads (and maybe resident aliens with US degrees), such that employers would be required to seek actual interviews from the registry and to post their salary offers before being allowed to seek H1-B cards. And this seems like a good opportunity to "sting" crooks by posting nearly identical resumes from India and Indiana. If an investigator worded the bait resume correctly then this could be done even today.
It also seems from notes here and elsewhere that there are too many CS grads in total and too few trade school and apprenticeship grads. The U.S. has obliterated its blue collar sector and this blight is spreading into the technical occupations, partly because of the glass ceiling on technical pay grades and partly because technical personnel are seen as commodities and opportunities for cost reduction (as opposed to CEOs where the company goals aim toward "enhancement").
July 19, 2007 3:21 PMAn older subject still ageing. Present/past US comprehension of educated skills a deplorable mixture of cost cutting, information draining, and no understanding of upgrading workers skills rather than hiring and laying off.
Today's hire become tomorrow's old information replaceable with new information at in-hire pricing.
Society gets what it asks and is willing to pay for.
Sadly gives not and in the long run gets not.
Possibly now approaching time to reconsider, generate better wages thru far less waste and consider long term education and experience support for locals!
July 21, 2007 2:18 PM"Posted by: Jack Dale at July 10, 2007 10:26 PM"
The above is the crime ... he do told that he had been to US at the age of 22 after completing masters.. but after going US he mentioned the same that he had completed BS and MS what a f*cking thing it is. Making reader a fool
August 7, 2007 7:51 AMIt only costs $600/yr to get a cs degreee from the top university in India. It can easily top $100,000/yr in the U.S. Has anybody done the math?
September 24, 2007 11:58 AMJust a little logic will tell you what the H1B program does.
The law of supply and demand applies to labor.
When supply increases or demand decreases the price of a commodity(like labor) goes down. Producers make less, supply decreases and the price reaches a balance. It's a nice feedback system that works well, It's called Capitalism and Free trade.
When Government interferes in the Free market that is socialism or Communism.
The Cheap visa indentured servants who lack the rights of Americans to change jobs, join unions, negotiate salaries, and who are baited with the Carrot of U.S. citizenship and the favorable exchange rate.
More Visas = greater supply of engineers= lower wages = less Americans entering field = lobbying for more cheap labor H1B's.....
Less visas = increased wages for engineers = Americans entering field = Less visas needed.
The companies who whine about the lack of engineers are the same ones who glorify free trade with country's that have lower standards of living, and few if any enforced labor or environmental laws.
Also does anyone know the proportion of male to female visas? I see very few women getting these, shouldn't it be around %50 or is the program deliberately sexist?
December 28, 2007 9:29 PM
