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May 16, 2005
So, You Want to Be an Engineer… (Part I)
You've voiced many important opinions about whether or not you would encourage someone to be an engineer. Engineering is indeed a risky business, but is it riskier than any other job? Is engineering even the problem?
Following are direct quotes from readers…
"Why would young people go into engineering and science when they see their parents and older people being laid off?"
"The engineering field is so unstable."
"Unfortunately, [John Chambers of Cisco] does not mention that for every American engineer he hires, there are two jobs created in India."
"My point: engineering is a promising career. People probably do get laid off more frequently now than when I started my career, but that applies to other professions as well."
Yes, layoffs have certainly affected engineering in particular, and manufacturing in general. In this article from Control Engineering—in 2001—Andy Chatha of ARC said, "In this market, no one is being spared. This slowdown in manufacturing really began at the end of 2000, and a lot of it is driven by inventories built up over last couple of years. Everyone was optimistic and got into spending cycles, which later hit the wall and caught everyone off guard."
Check out this piece from October, 2002. Boeing, Sun, TI, Honeywell, Applied Materials, GE Aircraft Engines, Caterpillar, and Raytheon stand out as engineering-driven firms with substantial layoffs. Delta/Northwest/United, JP Morgan/Chase, Arthur Anderson, Maytag, and Goodyear tires stand out with their own layoffs. Countless examples exist—far beyond this one link—of layoffs, today, being a universal concern in America.
More recently, an article entitled Mass Layoffs in 2005 mentions, "The manufacturing sector accounted for 32 percent of all mass layoff events and 41 percent of all initial claims filed in January." Frightening stuff, and it's not related only to engineering.
This primer for law students (at William and Mary School of Law) says, "There are lots of lawyers out there, all of whom made it through three years at some institution where arcane rituals like the Socratic method were practiced and subjects with inexplicably bizarre names like 'torts' were professed. All in all, this well-known fact (that there is a severe glut of lawyers in the U.S.) seems to be a pretty good indication that law school is not as extraordinarily difficult to get through as Scott Turow would have you believe. You made it into a really good school (something a lot of lawyers CAN'T boast…), you can make it through (with good marks) if you're willing to put in the effort."
Okay, so engineering is arguably out, as is law. So, are you going to tell Junior to be a doctor? Not so fast. "The federal government has agreed to pay hospitals around the country hundreds of millions of dollars not to train doctors in a highly unorthodox initiative aimed at alleviating a growing glut of physicians." (Here is the source for that quote.) Other sources also indicate some serious problems in choosing medicine as one's profession.
(As an aside, my daughter graduated from college last year, and is now a Software QA Manager at a defense contractor. She's doing extremely well, especially for a new graduate. Is her job stable? This administration has, of course, helped the defense industry a great deal. [I'll save the comments about Iraq, and even Halliburton.] As long as defense is strong, she's in a very good and apparently stable position. What happens after the next election, however? Who knows. As long as military actions continue, defense stays strong.)
Unless and until the U.S. again becomes a manufacturing and technology leader, economic conditions for all of us will be strained. We certainly don't have a prayer to regain that position anytime soon. Other countries (take your pick from India, China, or Mexico, just to skim the surface) are simply kicking our collective butts in terms of costs. Outsourcing is inevitable since, after all, companies are in business to make money. How can we possibly compete with weekly wages overseas that are often less than hourly wages here? Do we wait for them to wise up and/or catch up?
Buying U.S.-made products, as one reader mentioned, is certainly a start. Until we can FIND a U.S.-made product in Wal-Mart, for example, this just isn't going to happen. Trace the chain back and figure out how to make that work. Likely, you'll ram head-on into the question, "Is it time for the U.S. to become protectionist?" Careful. Even for a person as basic as I, this becomes (at lightning speed) an incredibly tricky economic, social, and (of course) political issue.
Maybe fixing engineering isn't the problem. Is it a non-issue until we fix manufacturing?
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34 CommentsNo matter what job you lose, if industry (MFG, engr, support, legal, etc) continues to transfer jobs out of country, then they better expect out of country to buy.
All jobs are ultimately based on the cyclic transfer of dollars from employer to employee to purchased goods and back to the employer (not forgetting that we lose some when government gets involved.)
The problem isn't engineering it is business management who are so into the bottom line and making money for the stockholders they can not see that by offshoring our jobs saves them money but at the same timke who buys the products we do and if can't work we can't buy!! We are becomeing the next third world nation were, unfortunately too late for us, we will be the cheapest labor and they will have the money to buy their products manufactured by us.
On another note is there really any US companies left???? Alot of companies are foreign doing biusiness here or own a portion of a formely US company. The US companies have all shipped manufacturing offshore. I saw an ad on TV where Hyundai has a manufacturing plant here HHmmm has it begun already - makes one think.
If one insists on being an Engineering graduate, make sure that you have a minor in plumbing or electrical. The degree will help, but if you want a future with demand and good pay, the minors will get you there.
What I have not seen mentioned is the fact that for a young child who is planning a future profession, they are still years away from graduation from college and the job market WILL be different many years from now. If there is a glut of engineers and a shortage of technicians, then a mass of students use that to determine that they wish to become a techincian, they create a glut of technicians and the former glut of engineers has probably subsided due to retirements. What one needs to consider is not only the numbers currently in the job market, but also the numbers enrolled in majors for those same positions. If there are already many people majoring in a field which currently has a shortage of people, that shortage will soon dissappear.
May 17, 2005 12:57 PMI would encourage children to do what interests them the most. They are likely to be more successful, creative, and happy doing what they WANT to do than doing what they HAVE to do to earn a living. Obviously there are risks associated with it, but an education in engineering builds good problem solving skills; they will be more likely to turn a layoff into an opportunity.
May 17, 2005 1:27 PMWithout engineers designing things you will never get much built. We design buildings, bridges, environmental systems, sewage plants etc. There will always be a need. The important thing for the kids to know is to be flexible and in a modern opportunity slot. Possibly environmental engineering will be the up and coming as new industrialized nations develop and add to the natural disruption.
I think it is also important to remember that some people HAVE to be engineers, because that's who they are.
May 17, 2005 2:08 PMI find your article interesting. In 1993 I left the field of engineering for sales. I made the change for money.
While I truly loved engineering, I was becoming disappointed with the rewards structure in engineering and sought to improve my compensation. I had become aware of the disparity of income between the sales staff and the engineering staff.
My first sales job was a winner and I nearly doubled my income in the first year. My engineering background was a plus and helped me land my first job in sales.
I have stayed in sales and continue to enjoy my work. While I do not design parts or equipment any longer, I am still closely aligned with engineering, as the systems I sell require quite a bit of thought in regards to equipment design and how it will effect the business it will be put into.
I especially liked your point on having a minor in plumbing or electrical to back up you engineering degree. This is critical, especially in the early years. I had a background that included machining, mechanics, welding, and optics. These skills are what created opportunities for me.
I have also noted that slaes people are better negotiators. In my past experinece, engineers tend to except a salary and that is the end of it. Sales people will negotiate a commission, or bonus to go along with their salary. Sales people are also in the business of renegotiating when their performance is high.
I would like to see engineers get a bonus for excellence. That is, if a patend on a design is issued, the engineer should be rewarded. When a new product is sold the salesman will get a commission and if sales take off guess who gets rewarded most.
There is an old argument that is like the chicken and the egg issue. If a product is never designed a salesman has nothing to sell. On the other hand, Nothing happens until a salesman sells something. Both are true nad there is a tie into the type of business. If a new and novel product is developed then there may be difficulty in selling it. If you are in the machinery business and a design enhancement gives your company and advantage over the competition it becomes much easier to sell.
Pros and Cons of Sales:
Pros:
Increased Income Potential.
Company Car
Schedule Flexibility
Working from home when in home territory.
Challenging Work
Working with many different people
Plenty of jobs available and increasing
Cons:
Travel - this can be both but after years of travel it is a con and can be tough on a family.
Irrational Customers
Pressure to maintain sales level
Not home often enough to work on personal interests
Engineering Pros and Cons
Pros:
Job Security - I still think good engineers have nothing to worry about.
Working in a field that you chose.
Challenging work - in most cases.
True feeling of accomplishment upon completing a design or engineering project.
Cons:
Limited income potential.
Stuck in an office or a small cubicle.
Closely attached to internal politics.
Your boss can just walk in your office, micromanagement.
Layoffs can be a reality. Especially, if the sales force is not doing their job.
There is a current trend that has less people going after the technical and science fields. The primary culprit is the compensation structure. Unless something changes there will continue to be an exodus out of those fields, including losses to alternative fields like sales. Then at some point engineers may be in great demand and they may decide to negotiate for their rightful compensation.
May 17, 2005 3:40 PM
The responses suggest most people have a pretty good perspective on how the world markets are changing and how they will continue to affect labor in america. But I too, don't have a crystal ball. I think Multi discipline skills and knowledge can provide the best insulation against what we generally all agree is happening.
May 17, 2005 9:09 PMIt is about time we look into reality that in the modern world we simply cannot be a leader in technology and manufacturing society in the same time. Lifetime of any product and its market demand is reduced down to few months instead of years. If China, Mexico or any other country can afford to be a manufacturing nation for any period of time let it be so. We need to go ahead and develop new fields, invent new ways, expand horizons of human capabilities. The real money is not in manufacturing; the real profit is in introducing new technology that expands human ability….
The help is to come from the Engineers that have a vision and from the companies that are ready to invest in to future. We know how and we have to go ahead not to look back…
Surprised to note some comments about Indians snatching jobs from US persons.
AN Indian compets for education right from the age of 3. While getting admission in primary school they have to face interview. To get admission in collage they have to get good marks.
To get admission in engineering collage the competation is too much.
As compaired with that things are very easy in USA.
After struggling in life at every moment , definitly an Indian engineer would excell in his professional life.
Let's talk briefly about software engineering. There is NO OTHER profession that changes as quickly. The technology was totally changing every five years and it is changing more rapidly each day. One has to constantly keep educating oneself to stay current, or else find a niche that would remain the same - yeah right - well some old flight simulator's computers don't change so there is a niche, but, when that baby is retired so are you. I wish I never got into software engineering and truly regret it. I have been laid off 6 times due to military downturns. Laid off due to NAFTA when work went to Mexico. Laid off again when the company was sold.
May 18, 2005 10:00 AMMy son was accepted into the engineering school at my alma mater. However, I encouraged him to enroll in business at a school that was the sports nemisis of my alma mater (talk about tough decisions!!) After recently completing a one year masters program, he will soon have his CPA.
I remember all too well the feeling of having some young bean-counter tell a group of project engineers that the project we worked on for the past 3 years has been cancelled and we are now laid off. Of course, the bean-counter still had his job. I'd rather my son be the bean counter.
Over a period of 20 years I have had (3) factories of Fortune 500 companies close from under me. The standard management line was foreign competition, high labor rates, poor market or economy etc. In spite of adding an MBA to my credentials, I still can't determine how these same businesses are still functioning in the U.S. BUT under foreign management!!
The trend according to experts is that the U.S. is moving to a "knowledge-based" economy. To me, that means we will do a lot of thinking, but won't be designing or building a blessed thing.
"Made in America.?" Not anymore.
May 18, 2005 10:17 AMA competent engineer who graduates from a competent school has gained the most BASIC tools of his profession, but at the same time she or he learned to assimilate information, analyze it, sythesize new information and apply it to solving a problem. If the engineer is truly competent, then oral and written communication, with good grammar, spelling, sentence structure and organization of the presentation, is also a fundamental skill. All these competencies taken together can make the engineer a formidable competitor in today's business climate.
Unfortunately, some of us decided to take the easy path and slide through school, our lives and our careers, doing only enough to get by. When a foreign engineer comes along who is willing to work for less, because he's had to make do with less all his life, and who is outstandingly competent in his or her chosen field, all we can do is complain and watch our jobs, which some of us (but not all, thank goodness) weren't doing very well anyway, go to the more accomplished worker. (And, by the way, it's hard to complain that they can't handle English well, either, because some of us responding to this article can't, either.)
I started my career hoping to find a company where I could work 30 or 40 years to a comfortable retirement. I grew up in an Army family, so I expected a "Career in Service." The truth is, I've had five employers and four career changes, but managed to stay in engineering. I've worked in private sector for as huge an institution as the early Bell Labs/AT&T organization and as small as a little dead-end, now-bankrupt assembler of access controls (read, "vending machines" for photocopiers). Now I work for the federal government in a small regulatory agency that does its absolute best to give the taxpayers their money's worth.
I'm proud of my career, although I've made some "misteaks" and occasionally lost ground and my ego. (Dang! I though I was perfect!) But I would not change from being an engineer for anything. Engineers know how to BE PRODUCTIVE and how to SOLVE REAL PROBLEMS. What other profession (except maybe the good ol' hometown doctors) can make that claim? Oh, by the way, good trade skills--plumbing, heating, wiring, carpentry, masonry? I've learned many of those, too, or at least enough toget a home project done and save money in the process. I'm not as good as a journeyman in the craft, but I can hold a conversation with one and not paint myself into a corner. How many salesmen can make that claim? (Oh boy! I've done it now! ;)
Engineers face the same enemy as most other professions. That enemy is time. While the fundamental math and science of engineering tends to remain somewhat static time marches on and with it the memory fades, skills go obsolete, specialization isolates your career and salary requirements escalate. None of these issues motivate an employer to keep or hire an aging engineer. Often the only remaining career path is management or self-employment and these endeavors have built in limitations. Every profession has its risks. Engineering tends to be subject to programmed obsolescence.
May 19, 2005 11:31 AMThings may get better in the future for engineering. A number of economists are predicting that the dollar is probably going to crash in the future due to the trade deficit. Here's one:
http://www.roubiniglobal.com/setser/archives/2005/05/bretton_woods_t_1.html
That would make the Chinese and Indians a lot more expensive.
May 27, 2005 8:01 PMIf Einstein were still alive right now, most likely he got less financial compensation than less intelligent salesmen and so-called managers who sell his idea to utility companies. Poor Einstein!
You should tell exactly how to be an engineer.
May 17, 2006 10:43 AM
